A very common mistake is that we unwillingly groom a lot of people to only expect freebies from us.
In this episode, we are discussing ways to break out of that “internet marketing bubble” and how to create and nurture an engaged following that is willing to spend for your offers.
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3 Big Take Aways
- How to engage with your audience to form deeper connections
- How to nurture your email list subscribers until they become buyers
- Making the right offers to avoid that your audience is only expecting freebies from you
- 52 Conversations Catalysts – grow your profitable social media following of REAL people through these psychology-backed strategies. Broken down into simple, yet powerful, practical steps literally anyone can do.
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Melissa: So the next question I have is for Mike. And we'll put you on the mic in a minute, Mike.
“When looking at what's improved next in your business, where do you typically start your hunt to identify the areas to improve and focus your energy on it?”
This is a good question. So do you wanna, do you wanna hop on the mic, Mike?
Mike: Hi everyone, thank you for doing this. I just wanted to ask you guys what your opinion is of where to start. I mean, for me, just from my perspective in my business, I work in the music industry and I teach people how to create pro recordings from the home studios.
And currently my mailing list is about 5,000 people, but I've always found that historically my conversion rates are horrible. They're like a quarter of a percent. And to me that was like low price memberships and like kind of cheaper courses. It just doesn't seem sustainable. So I'm, you know, I'm just trying to think of like, what areas can I improve?
Because even if I get it from like a quarter of a percent to a half, a hundred percent, I've doubled my business. So, so that just kind of looking at areas to improve and just kind of thinking, well, where do I go from here? And like what, what should it be paying attention to first? We can use on that.
Melissa: Yeah. Good question.
Paul: So open up to the group. Anybody have any suggestions for Mike?
Guest: Hi Mike. So what I would advise is to look at your marketing strategies. So probably you're doing something already, but I guess, you know, finding ways, good ways to attract people to you and finding out where you can improve.
Even if it's just a little thing it's really helpful. Like you said, if you go from a half to 1%, it's already like doubling, right? So any improvement that you can find there would be helpful. So what I would advise is really just check out anything where you can learn or find more information about using marketing strategies, using different marketing strategies or anything where you can tweak, you know, just learn and be open. Yeah, that's it.
Melissa: it's good because sometimes it's already what we're already doing and we kind of overlook that. So that's really good
Para: Okay. So I just wanted to, let's see if I can, I can grab some information, so then it's a little bit easier to help.
So then how did you get your 5,000 emails? Was there, did you, did you implement a free gift or like the funnel page? Like what did you do to get those people? Do you think maybe they're not your target audience because of how you got them and what sort of social media are you using? Are you, do you have an age group?
If you have an age group, if it's the younger age group, you know, that social media in regards to like Snapchat and, and of course Instagram, but then Tik Tok, which I know everybody loves, but kids love it. And I have kids and I deal with kids all the time and that's really huge right now. And you can promote at least that way without paying any money.
So it's free marketing and, and showcase your skills and people might, you know, click on your link and go see what you got. So that's social media wise, but so I'm curious, like what's your age group? How'd you get your 5,000 people and such?
Mike: Yeah, for sure. For me, I'd say that my age group is between 25 and 50 generally.
It's kind of my audience as for how I built the list up up to 5,000, I do have a freebie, I've got a few different freebies that I offer, like cheat sheets and that kind of stuff. So that's picked up a lot of traction.
I've been on some podcasts as guests as well. So that's helped to bring some more attention to it, to the site and a lot of paid advertising lately. I've been doing that. Like as I went into my last launch, I did some advertising and got a thousand new people into the list just through, through ads, to my freebies.
So the freebies, I know, I know that those are working. Like, I think generally people who land on my,on my freebie pages convert around like 30-35%, which I think is a pretty decent number for the landing pages.
The email rates are probably sitting around like 15% open rate right now, which that's probably lower, I'm guessing. So that's one area that I feel I need to pay a little bit more attention to, I guess, as for your question about kind of social media.
Admittedly, like I'm, I'm not the greatest with social media. Like I don't have like a Facebook group that I like actively run. I've been putting a lot more of my attention onto building a, like a podcast and YouTube. I feel like for my audience, they're very like tutorial, heavy. They want like kind of like screen walkthroughs of like what's going on in the software and that kind of stuff.
So I find that that's a little harder to do on like Instagram or like Instagram stories or their new reels, because it's just too short of a period of time to like really walk through something. So that's why YouTube has been more of a focus there. So I think that answered all the questions that you asked.
Para: Yeah. So it sounds like, I mean, you, except for the fact that you probably want to venture out into a few other social media just to see what you can get from that. Even if you don't like it, like if doing lives, I know that's kind of a big deal. And even though you might not want to do it, but from my experience and from people that I've, you know, I can't say helped because I mean, I have a membership too, but it's just different.
So they've all experienced a lot of, of traffic and people interested once you actually like really pay attention, see you, connect with you have that consistency where they, like, they know they can count on you, like say you do it once or twice a week.
And you say, I'm doing this and come join me. You, you know, check it out and then just show them what you do or who you are. Like the whole tell story thing while you're doing something. So they connect with you as a person. And the more, more likely that you're going to get them to commit. Right. At least that's my experience, but I don't know if that's going to help you. Cause I know you don't wanna do Facebook.
Mike: For sure. And I Admittedly, yeah, like I, I, on my last launch, I did start to do some Facebook lives, which I had never really done before. And it was like, I guess, out of my comfort zone to some degree, but you know, I got into the routine of it.
And like, by the end of the week, I was feeling a little more comfortable with it. So I think it's just a matter of now figuring out how do I, how do I do more of that and get people watching it? And I guess, you know, to your point,
letting people know that I'm going to be showing up at a certain date, because even when I did those Facebook lives, like nobody appeared because I only gave them maybe a few hours notice or something like that. So that doesn't sound good there. Right?
Para: Yeah. That's commitment and like pre scheduling and then you're like stuck with it. Right. You have no choice.
So then you're like, I'm committed and I have to do it. And then you show up and hopefully they start showing up and knowing that you're there, then they're gonna keep coming. At least, hopefully the consistency brings them in.
Mike: For sure.
Melissa: Love it. Awesome.
Paul: It looks like Heather has her Handley's okay.
Heather: Oh, Mike, my question for you would be regarding your email list.
You send your open rate is 15%. And while I think, and Melissa can correct me here, I think industry standard right now, now is running somewhere between 17 and 20. But a good open rate is somewhere between 30 and 40. And I think when you have 5,000 people sitting on your list and our list is our greatest asset, I think the energy and attention needs to be on getting that list more engaged.
So my question is, what kind of emails are you sending? Is that 15% average? Have you, have you had any email that's performed better than that average? And if so, what was that content like? How are you engaging with your list?
Mike: Every time I put out a new piece of content, I always send out an email about it just to make a little mini lessons out of what the video on YouTube is about or whatever my podcast episodes about and introduce that. So that's primarily kind of like the stuff that I would normally mail people with other than like obviously launches and that kind of stuff.
So yeah. In terms of answering your next question about like, which ones are the best performing emails? I would say that anytime, anytime I've had like a free download or something like that, or like some sort of giveaway, like I instantly see like more people show up for those.
So I don't know if that just means, like, I don't want to judge and say like, my audience is like, you know, just looking for freebie stuff, but it seems to be that those attract a lot of people, right. So I guess maybe I have to make more content that is going to take them deeper down that rabbit hole once they've downloaded something, right.
Heather: It'd be a copy issue in your emails. You know, like, how are you, how are you framing the content when you put it out there, are you tying it back to a pain point in a compelling way in the subject line? Because your first job is you, your co your subject line has to be compelling enough to get them to open it. And after four or five emails in a row of opening, do a compelling subject line. If the content doesn't match the compelling subject line, right.
Or doesn't equally engage them and hook them. I mean, we have the shortest attention spans we've ever had in history, thanks to social media and technology. You know, they're not going to keep opening. So I would look first to see if you have a copy problem before you decide it's a content problem, because if you put your energy into fixing a copy problem, if that's what it is, you can increase your open rate through your compelling subject line and then hook them with the content and engage the people you have. It's, it's my opinion that that's probably the best use of your time and energy right now to increase your conversion rates.
Melissa: Love that.
Doreen: So, Mike, I was wondering similar to what it had, our thing, you know, is that what are, what are the themes that are being reacted to in, in the opens and what is the headline, you know, does the headline say there's a long, you know, or, you know, peak inside for something juicy, you know, and I'm wondering if the, if you're creating consistency.
So you said that you're sending out emails when,you know, whether it's a new lesson of content and what have you, is there, is there consistency that you could deliver that it's like Mondays with Mike and you identify two or three things, not 20, but two or three things that are compelling. And then what doesn't feel urgent, you can move to the next week and have a few things that are really helpful and you know,
what your audience wants to know is they want to feel seen. Right? I have not spoken out, but spoken with, you know, so, so think about that and think about how, how you're best connecting and do more of that.
Honestly, I, I noticed some other things, you know, Oh, I don't know how often you clean your list, but it might be a good opportunity, you know, coming towards the end of the year to clean your list and in doing so, you can also kind of survey, like, do you, you know, rank force rank these, these topics, you know, what do you enjoy hearing most? I want to be that resource for you.
And then lastly would be,if you looked at the pillars of your business and you are generating these, the downloadables, you are generating content, what is leading them to the revenue, right? So maybe you're able to see people are opening on a regular basis. Some people are opening more frequently than others. Make sure that there, there is a either impact or revenue that they're, they're heading towards.
I know I said, last thing that I do have one more thing. And that is, if you look at your, if you picked four pillars of your business, right, you're building the foundation, right. And you identify four very distinct pillars. Lastly, look at what you're spending time on and what is really delivering the impact.
And perhaps the revenue that you're trying to deliver and free up there is a disparity there because sometimes we're spending a lot of time on something. We really don't need to be impacted them there.
Mike: That's good. That's great. I like that a lot.
Paul: Yeah. So do you, do you have anything
Melissa: I just addon with the email, cause I do think you have like a, it sounds like you have a, you have a great pond of people. It's just getting them to engage more. So if you haven't done like a temperature check with your emails, that might be really helpful even, and this will take, it's a little bit of, you know, sweat equity with this, but short email, “Hey, how's it going? Just checking in”, just like, like, just like a one sentence thing.
And can you reply back and let me know you got this and then start that conversation in an email. If you haven't done that in a while. And I would suggest everyone do this every once in a while to get that conversation going back and forth. And it is going to take some time to go back and forth because you're going to be having that conversation, but that'll help with that deliverability. And then also kind of see how, how things are going in their life. And then that could lead to other things too. So I would definitely do that. If you haven't done a temperature check in a little while
Mike: On that note about temperature check, like, do you typically make that temperature check based around like a specific topic so that people reply back to you?
Or is it literally just like a, just trying to get people to respond to your thing?
Melissa: I just try to get people to respond to me. It's literally like, “Hey, how's it going?” I just wanted to make sure I, I think the last one I sent was something like, you know, you know, I'll be sending a couple emails the past couple weeks about creating conversations on social media.
Have you been getting them just want to check in with you? Like literally it's two sentences. It's very short, it's very conversational. It feels personal. And then, you know, just, just, can you let me know and then have them reply back to you? It's, it's a really, really short email, but that tends to get through rather than long, long, long copy too. And then they are like, Oh, Melissa checking in with me and then, and whatnot.
And I always do on my emails. I do usually on the bottom, I do have a call to action, hit reply, and let me know, you know, ask a question back and I get a lot of people that will do that.
That's just whatever my topic is that I'm talking about, you know, and I get a lot of people having a conversation. So I always have a conversation back. It takes time, but then that helps with that deliverability too
Mike: For sure. That's great. Thank you very much.
Paul: Alright. I'm just gonna bring it up.
Cause there's some great thoughts that, that everybody already shared. So I'm gonna, gonna just not repeat those things, but bring on different perspectives also is we're in this internet marketing Bible and we think like the more people we have the better and not every, not every Email subscriber, not every like, not every, anything are equal, but we see everybody and we just see a number and we see a vanity metric and we think everybody's exactly the same.
And all these people are that instantly followed us or got our email list are a buyer and the majority of the time, but most of us, because we're in the internet marketing bubble. Sometimes we groom a lot of people to expect free from us. And that's how they see us. That's how they see us on the store shelf. You know, how much are you willing to any of you?
How much are you willing to pay for tap water? Okay. Now the moment you walk into a nightclub or a bar or a restaurant and they put it in a plastic or a glass bottle, you suddenly are paying for that thing, aren't you? So it just like, how did you wrapper yourself and how you conditioning your people?
So where I would start, like if you're looking at your existing audience, I would test them to see, do I have a ton of freebie seekers that don't perceive me as somebody that they're willing to pay for?
And what I would do is on the funnel that you have created, that's gathered these people. A lot of you have to understand is that you have 100% of the people will reject the offer that you never give them.
Do you hear what I said? 100% of the people were rejected. The offer you never gave them. So when we are in this internet marketing bubble, you find like lead magnet, lead magnet, lead magnet, lead magnet. Now every once in a while, you do hear people. And this comes in different forms. You hear something called the self liquidating offer – SLO.
You'll hear OTO one time offer, you also hear a reference as a tripwire. Now you have the moment and this is micro decisions. So you have the moment. Somebody gives a fair exchange in their mind that they're giving up their personal data, their personal information. They're giving an email to a stranger, to somebody they think quite a hundred percent know yet.
And in exchange, they're going to get this promise, this freebie, this, download this checklist, this, this tool, right? in that moment though, 99% of us do not give a next step. That person just made a micro commitment. And all we see is like, Oh, we're trying to build an email list. Right? And that's what we're conditioned like, get that email list as much as possible, right?
But in that moment, it doesn't mean that that person was looking and willing to only receive free from you. That's the only opportunity you gave them. So just keep that in mind, you gave them only a free opportunity. Now, potentially in that moment, if you know what your freebie is and they just they're salivating,
they want this thing. They feel that at least for what the value proposition you made, they're willing to give up their personal contact information to get this free. What is the next logical step behind that? What's the other thing. That's the next step that has a little bit more perceived value that they would want because they need and want the free, like they're perfectly in line with it.
So what is that thing that has perceived value right behind it, but not like a high cost thing. It's hard to take somebody from like, Hey, try this free sample, you know, in the food court, like here, try this free sample. Oh, by the way, I have a $2,000 thing you want to buy it like, Whoa, have your free sample back. Sorry. Thank you very much.
Yeah. But we go to Costco, we get accosted by these people in the malls. Like, they're like, Hey, let me free spray. Let me just spray the, you know, try this cream, you know, because it solves a small pain point. It's not your big promise.
It's not your membership. It's not your course. It's not your big thing, but it is the next logical step. It's the next natural thing you could support and make a lot of money and also have a divided email list, an email list that identifies who your freebie seekers are. And every once in a while, people will buy out of that list.
But also your buyers, like what's a micro commitment. What's a $7 offer, a $17 offer, a $27 offer that is so undervalued. You would like, and this is what you want to do. You want to position that offer where, when somebody is presented with it, they're going to have a moment that they're going to say to themselves: “I feel dumb. I feel stupid that I'm going to close the browser out right down and not take this offer. I'm just going to feel like it's so no brainer that I should say yes. And if I close the browser back out right now, I just, you know, I'm not a reasonable human being, you know?”
And, and, but when you do that, well, you have to understand is you immediately separate people that are willing to pull their wallet out. That list that email us to you, that part of the email list will be so much more incredibly valuable to you through the lifetime of that person
Melissa: and nurture that person, get them to know you. Then they'll invest more in you.
Paul: Otherwise, if you keep going back and just say, Oh, I've got another free thing for you this week. Another three free thing for you this weekend. Another free thing for you this week. Well, you know what, while they're getting your free things from you, they just spent $2,000 on a piece of gear that week. They just spent, you know, $600 on a course or a membership or something else in not.
And you know what I mean? Like they're still buying things that they perceive have value. So we gotta be careful because a lot of us are grooming people to expect free from us. And we're building large, large, like hoards of people, you know, like a herd, you know, that is like, that's all they expect from us.
Like, no matter what. And then we're trying to shake the tree every once in a while just to find the two, the three, the, so that half of that quarter percent, you know, it just, you definitely there's the deliverability messaging that was already covered. There's other elements, temperature check, all those things, but also understand is not everybody in there was equal.
You do have buyers, most likely hiding in there. You might not have made them the right offer on why they came to your originally. But just understand when somebody makes a micro commitment they're in the moment and they just exchange that email. That is the highest peak moment right now for them to take the next logical logical step with you.
The moment that we ever go away from a decision making moment, our ability to convert people and any level goes down dramatically. Does it mean this person then might not be ready, willing, and able right to second, they all know who you are. They just went to freebie. You could nurture them and give them an offer later on. If you guys haven't been through it, Melissa does her 52 conversation catalysts and people are given after they sign up for it.
They go to 52conversationcatalysts.com . The moment they sign up for it in that moment, they're given a one time offer. And there's Suzanne, Suzanne, Suzanne has the calendar. Okay. So given the conversation, Catalina, Leah. So, so she has the download and then we immediately give an offer into Insta posts, which is here's 52 conversations.
This is once a week solution. Oh, by the way, here's a paid solution. That's 365 days. Now, majority of people don't take it's a percentage does. And that's why they go into our nurture sequence. And every 90 days they're given another offer another opportunity to buy because they are not writing will enable today, but they could be 90 days from now.
That could be another 90 days after that, we do that for a full year. They get nurtured, nurtured, nurtured, and slowly indoctrinate it. And at one moment, they're probably weren't ready, willing, and able.
So on your end, I would look at like, what could you put on the back end of some of your freebie offers, that would be the next logical step. And for all of us, whether you have a membership, of course, like whatever your core offer is, make sure this is where a lot of people fail. Make sure your lead magnet is the natural piece of bait that will make the right people desire who would desire your main offer, be able to course or membership.
I see the most random lead magnets put into the marketplace. People are not properly. You could have all these people when you email us. And they came in for some random thing that you thought was a cool idea today, but it has no link as nothing. That'll link people into wanting and desiring your membership. And the last thing I'll leave you on is in your lead magnets.
put a cover on it and do a little mini bio on you. You're using it to leverage the position yourself while they're downloading and consuming the content, leverage that opportunity. They see you in front of their face. You got their email. You're going to talk to them in a future. Leverage the opportunity to position yourself as an expert in on that.
So do you have a one pager? That's now it's a two pager, but on the last page, after you deliver the content, give them the next step. What's the next step you want them to take, join your Facebook group, go like your page, go, you know, go sign up like an opportunity because they download it. They can click on a secret link with a secret coupon.
Cause they got the freebie, like what is the next step? Cause we just get the thing and then we're like, okay, they're going to know that I was the guy last week when they signed up for that freebie. Next week, that, that email that I sent out to them. I'm that same guy. Now they've got 30 other downloads I've gotten between now.
And then. So sorry, demeanor ramp. I'm going to wait too long. Hopefully that was really helpful. Awesome. Awesome.